For Shame.

(cross posted at kickin it with cg)

It's been roughly 10 hours and 30 minutes since John McCain announced his VP pick Sarah Palin.  Since that time - I think its safe to say that the American public and particularly the media and blogosphere have been chomping at the bit to get their sexist rocks off.

As shakesville says:

We defend Sarah Palin against misogynist smears not because we endorse her or her politics, but because that's how feminism works.  For the record, there is plenty about which to criticize Palin that has absolutely fuck-all to do with her sex. She's anti-choice, against marriage equality, pro-death penalty, pro-guns, and loves Big Business. (In other words, she's a Republican.) There's no goddamned reason to criticize her for anything but her policies.

And as DoctorScience says - The biggest single danger of Palin's candidacy is that it will bring enough foaming misogyny out of the Democratic side to repel some female voters over to McCain.

Let's take a look at a few examples from the last 10 hours, shall we?  

A clever blogger started the website VPILF, and I think it speaks for itself.

Progressive sites like KOS, commenters post lovely pictures like this.  Or declare Link To Sarah Palin Nude?

Suggestions that Palin is a puppet and her husband is really the Governor of Alaska.

And while the media has too many examples to being up - one comes to mind...

Palin has been the VP pick for all of five minutes, and already one of the (male) reporters on CNN just asked another reporter something along the lines of, "Now, Palin also has a baby with Down's Syndrome. Those children require an awful lot of care. Do you think she'll be able to balance taking care of that baby with being Vice President? I mean, having a Down's Syndrome baby takes up a lot of time and energy.

I guess the lessons from the Democratic primary didn't catch.



Display:


sigh. (1.93 / 16)

wish i could say my mydd colleagues have been immune too.....


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:34:55 PM EST

Re: sigh. (2.00 / 3)

agreed. it's been gross here tonight on this topic.


by swissffun on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (2.00 / 3)

I hadn't heard.

She deserves to be attacked on the issues, not her sex.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (2.00 / 2)

...and there is so much to attack her for on those.  

But, how do you describe what is clearly sexisim on McCain's part in choosing her.  The message is, women are all the same, I got me one, I'll get me their votes.  That is where the worst sexist behavior lives.


by mady on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (2.00 / 1)

agreed...


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:00:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (none / 0)

You confuse sexism with demographics.  To illustrate, is NOT voting for Obama racism?  The simple fact of gender or race is demographics.  Hatred of the demographic is the "ism" you should be addressing.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:42:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It is sexism at its worst (2.00 / 1)

but it's no surprise.  The majority of women chose to be democrats because we KNOW the republican party is sexist, and is not above exploiting gender or race to get what they want.  

But what REALLY HURT DEEPLY and some are having a hard time getting past is that THE DEMOCRATIC party used sexism and allowed sexism to be used against one of its own.

You know how it is in your own family. It hurts more when someone you care about, someone with your same interests betrays you.  

Everyone wants the UNITY thing to have happened...but when just after the dem convention misogyny from dems is all over the blogs, it's like rubbing salt in fresh wounds.  JUST BAD all around.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (none / 0)

Wander onto the regular Internet tubes (not strictly political ones) and watch it go even faster downhill.

The nomination is the top story on Digg. The fourth ranked comment was "McCain/MILF 2008" at +941. It got 996 uprates and 55 downrates.


by TCQuad on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

as we discussed earlier... (2.00 / 2)

this has been a v. sad day for me.  particularly seeing people i respect saying brutal things.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: as we discussed earlier... (2.00 / 1)

Sorry CG.

This is how I feel.

She is the new "Dan Quayle."  

I'm sorry that you are distressed.  I find her policies repellent, so my personal disgust in her political philosophy does color my willingness to attack her.


"Can We Build It? Yes We Can!" - Bob the Builder
by Stipes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:37:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm with you Stipes (2.00 / 2)

The choice is pathetic b/c of the person.

I don't understand really. She was mayor of a town of barely 9,000 people just 2 years ago. Now she is a heartbeat away from being POTUS, and she is VP to the oldest candidate in US political history.

McCain can technically win this thing. And we'll left with a person who will be leading the country with a paper thin resume and who " doesn't know what's going on in Iraq". Her words.

A GOP male wouldn't of even been considered for the spot.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm with you Stipes (2.00 / 1)

McCain can technically win this thing. And we'll left with a person  who will be leading the country with a paper thin resume and who " doesn't know what's going on in Iraq". Her words.

The last sentence that I didn't quote does you no good, but you are right on. We HAVE to raise these issues, because it is too important not to.
"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

are you sure about last sentence? (2.00 / 1)

I seem to remember names like Dan Quayle or GWBush....


by louisprandtl on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:13:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: are you sure about last sentence? (2.00 / 1)

Even the wretched Dan Quayle had been in Congress for 14 years before being selected as VP.

And to add to the other statements in this thread it's not just that it's sexist for McCain to assume all women are basically the same ("I got me one," as it was succinctly phrased above).

It's that he picked a young beauty queen with barely any experience at all. In other words, McCain is no different from all the sleazoid bosses in America who fast-track promotions for the "office babe" over women who've been there far longer and accomplished far more.

Sadly, McCain wants to turn this into a People Magazine election, thinking that low-info voters will coo over her "adorable" family and unique sporting hobbies and forget all that actual "governance" stuff. Pathetic.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 02:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: are you sure about last sentence? (2.00 / 1)

And by the way, Canadian Gal, although I do agree that there's a danger to cross over into sexist or misogynist territory while criticizing Palin, let's at least cut dKos some slack...on a site of 160,000+ people (or whatever it is these days), it's way too easy to find comments that support any given thesis.

Now, if you see a top-recommended diary or a front-pager making sexist or misogynist remarks, that would be a different story.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 02:06:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I had no problems with what Space wrote (none / 0)

or you wrote above. I was just pointing out his last statement..I don't remember anything that jumped right out to my mind that Mr. Quayle did in Congress that justified his "promotion" to the VP position. Excepting that he looked young and good on TV..I was not sure his 14 years in Congress really justify that choice of Bush Sr..John McCain actually is quoted to say "Senator John McCain, who said "I can't believe a guy that handsome wouldn't have some impact." (Check Wikipedia)


by louisprandtl on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:56:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sorry, the John McCain quote is (none / 0)

'"I can't believe a guy that handsome wouldn't have some impact." Maybe that's an insight to his thought process in choosing Palin..


by louisprandtl on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:58:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm with you Stipes (none / 0)

I still don't know why had didn't pick Olympia Snow or KBH.

KBH, especially, would have been pretty scary.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:03:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm with you Stipes (none / 0)

I'm sorry, Rocketman, to have to refute your argument:  "A GOP male wouldn't of even been considered for the spot."
That is Geraldine Ferrare-speak re: Obama.  Can't have it both ways.

Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:47:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Probably a misstatement (2.00 / 2)

I'm not the spaceman (or bill lee), but my guess is he meant no male with her credentials would have been chosen.  Which, in this rare case, is likely true.

It's not the same as Ferraro's statement since I'd say pretty much anyone of any color or gender who is the orator Obama is would have been at least considered.  He made Pat Buchanan blush.  And his experience is not that far behind JFK's (and he didn't have the same family apparatus supporting him).  

Time will tell if she has the same magnetism and agile mind...from the clips I've seen, she's no slouch, but she's nothing special either...and she's certainly no Hillary Clinton (or Joe Biden for that matter).  My guess is this will prove to be a Quayle-esque choice, and certainly hope she does.


by thurst on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This makes McCain a hypocrite (2.00 / 1)

the pied piper of "we need experience" just picked someone with less experience than Barack Obama.

That's fine, I don't criticize Palin's lack of experience. Hell, I've said before, I'd vote for a State Senator if I thought he or she was qualified and agreed with me on issues.

But McCain apparently disagreed with me...well until today anyway.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Palin's Extreme Pro-Life Positions... (2.00 / 4)

...are very scary, indeed.

Pro-Life in all instances involving incest and rape?

Imagine how that would affect her choices if she ended up in the role of being tasked with selecting Supreme Court Justices?!?!

Now, that's a scary thought.


by bobswern on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 03:22:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (2.00 / 2)

Being chosen for VP solely because she's female is an issue. She certainly has no material or personal qualifications to be next in line to an old man with cancer.


"I don't know too much about Sarah Palin, but perhaps that's the good news." -- GOP Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison
by Obama44 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 04:19:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (2.00 / 1)

I'm always amazed here about the ignorance on skin cancer.  McCain will die of something - some day - but it's won't be skin cancer.  


by cameoanne on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 08:35:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (none / 0)

McCain suffered from Melanoma. 48,000 people die of it every year. Will he die of it I hope not. But he wants to be our President he should show better judgment in many areas including his health.


by canadian on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:33:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (2.00 / 1)

I don't think you understand.  Have you had skin cancer?  Did you know there are 3 types of skin cancer - not all deadly?  I've had melanoma and basel cell carcinoma myself.

It's not a disease like diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.  It's treatable and curable.  People who die of skin cancer have normally walked around with that suspicious mole for a long time - perhaps years.  By the time they get alarmed enough to get to a Doctor, it may have gone to a stage 3 or 4.  Skin cancers grow predominently down and not out.

McCain does show good judgment with regard to his health.  He has quarterly check-ups with a Dermatologist.  This keeps any future skin cancer he may - or may never again - get from getting out of control.


by cameoanne on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:53:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (2.00 / 1)

Okay, but what do we do about the fact that McCain is exhibiting signs of early stage dementia?


"Can We Build It? Yes We Can!" - Bob the Builder
by Stipes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:24:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for bringing this to my attention. (none / 0)

I don't know about that - he may be.  I haven't been listening to McCain.  I'm just trying to educate people here that skin cancer is different from other cancers and is not a death sentence.


by cameoanne on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And it's gonna get worse (2.00 / 2)

I really don't comment much any more....but I had to take note of this.  Go look at HuffPost.  The sexism's so thick over there you could spread it like jam.  I thought about commenting - but where?  There have to be fully one dozen separate threads all addressing Palin's resume in as offensive a manner as possible.  And it's not just the blogs.  The MSM's calling her the Alaska 'Barbie'.  

All I can do is shake my head in disgust.


by The Fat Lady Sings on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:56:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And it's gonna get worse (none / 0)

Well, shoot, tho.

She's a former Beauty Queen and did a flattering and inappropriate Vogue cover not too long ago.

Why does she get a pass for exploiting her looks?


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:09:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

For the same reason (none / 0)

the right gets away with framing everything by letting democrats be stupid!
What the hell is it that keeps dem bloggers so clueless.

We just came off a primary where ageism and sexism toward a beloved female role model candidate was trashed by the party she worked for all her life with crap right out of the neocons CDS.  Women are ANGRY as hell at the sexism of the media, condoned by the silence of the DNC.  
A woman who worked four decades for liberal causes was trashed for the sake of a younger, male candidate.  It is the story  of many of our lives.
Rubbing salt in those wounds is what the sexism against Palin does.  Wake up.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:09:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For the same reason (2.00 / 1)

Well, OK, what about exposing Palin's own sexism?

Calling Hillary a whiner, laughing uproariously when a couple radio guys call one of Palin's colleagues a b*tch and making fun of her because she's a cancer survivor (who earned thier wrath by blocking two anti-abortion bills).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Nt5ADY7 ug


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:22:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Palin is a republican (none / 0)

whose stance on the issues is totally against everything I believe in.

But the point that you are missing is this:  MOST of us know that many rethugs could care less if they are exploiting sexism.  MOST of us know that republicans, especially in the age of ROVE will exploit any and everything.
Those fact do not ease the pain of OUR OWN party, the one that the majority of women worked for, knocked on doors for, played the role of worker bees while the queen bee men got all the leadership roles, has been just as bad in its public sexism.  The DNC did NOTHING, said NOTHING while a long time democratic woman was publicly attacked.  DO YOU NOT GET HOW MUCH ANGRIER THAT MADE US THAN ANYTHING KNUCKLE DRAGGING RIGHT WINGERS SAY?

I don't know how to say it but the betrayal of OUR OWN PARTY has left deep wounds.  NOW that same party is trying to use sexism against a republican women and think feminists should JOIN in because they (the rethugs) are exploiting feminists.  Women are not stupid, or clueless.  We KNOW what is happening.  Some are too angry to do anything but say "how's it feel dems to be betrayed by your own?"  

As long as the liberal bloggers who were so willing to tolerate ANYTHING hurled at Hillary, including sexism, women, MANY OF US, are now just saying "oh well, what goes around...."
Maybe some admissions and apologies (sincere ones) are in order.  But I won't hold my breath.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:45:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Palin is a republican (2.00 / 1)

Excuse me, but how is it the DNC's place to get in the middle of a primary and attack the media for sexist comments about Hillary (or racist comments about Obama), when sexist comments have been going around about her since 1992?
Where were you before she started running for president?
Calling out the McCain campaign for picking an inexperienced VP choice simply because she's a woman is not sexist.
They have now presented a definite statement to the public (in the form of Palin) that the main argument they've been using against Obama all along (inexperience) is completely invalid.
And why on earth would we need to apologize to you?
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You do not even make sense (none / 0)

Democrats have proudly railed against racism always....as we should.

How the hell was it racist to call Obama inexperienced but not sexist to do the same.

Go back to your cave.  You clearly do not get, nor, sadly, will you ever!


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You do not even make sense (2.00 / 1)

Not only do I get it, you moron, I've been getting it for about 30 years, the length of time I have worked in a male dominated field.
As a 50 year old former supporter of Hillary who has been advocating equal rights since the early 1980's, I get it a lot better than you do.
And please find one post on this blog that said calling Obama "inexperiencd" is racist.
It's not sexist to call the woman out on her very thin resume. She's not qualified.
Several more experienced, better qualified women and men were passed over for this young Republican female. How is that not sexism?
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the referee (none / 0)

As Howard Dean was fond of saying, the DNC has to be the referee:

Dean on Meet the Press: I will have to be the referee.

Dean on Fox News Sunday: I really do have to be the referee and have to be entirely neutral


by souvarine on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only he wasn't (none / 0)

he took sides.

He and Kerry and Kennedy weren't going to let some woman do what they failed at doing....especially not some woman who had been married to some big old Bubba from Arkansas, of all places, that showed them up.

Classism and sexism all over the place from Dean and friends.

And it seems many dems, like the poster who rudely replied to me, refuse to deal with the disunity, and want to play "hey, get over it woman, shut up and get on board" our party has a problem.  
I don't think some of them understand at all how women resent being told to "get over it" because much of our lives we have been told what we think, what we feel is secondary to what the men want to happen.  

We've come a long way baby...NOT!!!


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:52:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only he wasn't (2.00 / 1)

Please feel free to find a link to an article where he took sides during the primary?
And in case you forgot, the "old Bubba" you refer to was the only Democratic president to serve two terms in decades.
The disunity you speak of are a few very unhappy people that cannot come to terms with their hatred and anger over the primaries.
Now these unhappy people are ecstatic that an anti-choice, anti-science female has been appointed to the spot on the ticket as if it's some big deal. Excuse me, but the Dems did it 24 years ago.
I am so over PUMA and their embarassing ignorance, it's just not even funny.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And a lot of us (none / 0)

are over false progressives like you and your ignorant false generalizations.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 03:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And a lot of us (none / 0)

"False" progressives? LOL!
I gather by your lack of response to my question that you cannot come up with any documented incidences of Howard Dean taking sides during the primary?
Go play over at Alegre's, that's more your speed, and she doesn't allow dissent to bother your tiny minds.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wonderful diary! (2.00 / 3)

I could not have said it better myself.  Sarah Palin is just wrong on so many levels.  McCain could have picked James Dobson himself for VP and it would have been no different.  We have to spread the word about her.  She is bad news for this country and would turn back the clock on women's reproductive rights.  

However, we need to do it without falling into sexist stereotypes and without degrading her FOR HER GENDER.  Many people find that a daunting task, because the thought of labelling a young inexperienced woman with all kinds of labels is too irresistable for them.  

This truly is a job for Hillary Clinton, imo.  If Barrack Obama wants to show America exactly how bad she would be for this country,  he should utilize her abilities on this.  

Hillary nailed it today in her statement.  She congratulated Sarah for being the first GOP female candidate, aknowledged that it was historic and that it was great to have her in the field of players,  but that she was wrong for this country.


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 05:56:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sigh. (2.00 / 2)

I have seen the worst racist/sexist comments against Michelle Obama on this website in the past week. There was a whole thread were people were saying how angry she looked and criticized her for not smiling during Hillary Clinton's speech. I saw people here attacking her for "acting" like she was a housewife who put her kids above everything else. Sorry, but where was canadian gal when this abuse was going on?

I seemed to be the only one who was deeply offended.


by Lolis on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:28:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

really lolis.... (none / 0)

it seems to me as a fairly new user and that this is a highly misguided comment.  check my diary history - or better yet - since you suggest you were the only one calling it out - why not take a look at CAchemists diary on this topic.

and btw - i think you are mixing up your websites - i dont recall seeing the vile things here on mydd, but rather someone reposting hate filled bile from somewehere else calling it out.  and as to sexism being thrown at MO for being a housewife, hey why not check out my diary on this v. topic.  its a bit old, but still applies.

but a nice bait and switch lolis - well done.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:51:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So saying someone looked (none / 0)

unhappy, looked upset is not racist????

Explain please.

Is that like saying someone is inexperienced is racist???


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:59:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sigh. (none / 0)

Canadian Gal, the ridiculous replies to this diary have convinced me once and for all to leave.  The mods do their best to keep this site venom free, but I'm afraid the problem is not limited to any one site or person.  The venom itself is within the hearts and minds of those who believe so strongly in one narrative - Democratic victory, Obama's victory, whatever - that they will disparage not only the antithesis of their narrative but anyone who diverges only slightly from their narrative.  I'm afraid I fall into that camp, and I simply refuse to be associated with any group of people that will say and do anything like this anymore.

So, my last stand will be like my presence has been over the last few months - subtle and observant more so than the dramatics other have resorted to.  Obama/Biden '08 is fine by me and they'll get my vote, but I cannot participate here any longer.

I guarantee this post will result in troll and hide-ratings as well.  So be it.


by ejintx on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:42:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sigh. (none / 0)

i may be joining you.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:54:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sigh. (none / 0)

CG, you personally enabled the rampant sexism on MYDD.  You joined in on the HRing and TRing of those calling out the Obama campaign for it's treatment of Hillary.  You were not only part of, but LED the effort to silence us

While I'm gratified to see you now coming to your senses, I'm still somewhat smiling to see you get your comeuppance.

HR away, fools.


by switching sides2 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 3)

I've attacked her for her stance on issues.  I have not attacked her on her looks, her cleavage or her intelligence.

I've attacked McCain for complete and total pandering, thinking women are stupid or something.


by colebiancardi on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:41:41 PM EST

Re: For Shame. (1.25 / 4)

Except you have already made the assumption that McCain only chose Palin because she was woman so that is balony. McCain's campaign was labeled tired and too old and not exciting-couldn't those be the reasons he chose her. Or because she went after corruption in her own party and more importantly won -a topic near and dear. Or he chose her because he knew it woudl motivate the conservative wing of his party people he needs but hasn't sold himself too. Or he chose here to boost his maverick credentials and appeal to independents. Nope it is all about thinking women are stupid as far as you are concerned.


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:03:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 1)

Because he did! Where did you ever see an argument made ANYWHERE for Sarah Palin that didn't start out with the pros by saying something like "Well, obviously, she's female, so that helps."


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:08:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 3)

Plus, that's the angle she pushed during her speech--Geraldine, Hillary, glass ceiling and all that.

It wasn't like McCain is exactly hiding his strategy.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:11:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

Oh, dear lord.  Don't be so flapping clueless, or intellectually dishonest, whichever it is.

No man with this woman's resume would be considered a viable VP candidate.  None.  To suggest otherwise is the height of folly.


by Dreorg on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:42:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (1.50 / 8)

Sounds awfully like a similar comment (on a different candidate) that Geraldine Ferraro made and was pilloried for.


by cuppajoe on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

uprated (2.00 / 1)

to cancel an inappropriate HR. The comment may be trollish, but it has a point to make; it is not simply a personal insult.

If you did not like the comment or you think cuppajoe was a jerk to say that, you can troll rate.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 05:06:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Cupajoe has no other purpose other (none / 0)

than to see the Democratic ticket lose in Nov.

S/he would say "the sky is green" if that would work.


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:58:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cupajoe has no other purpose other (2.00 / 1)

I probably was a Democrat before you were born. And a very loyal one at that. You have no idea whereof you speak. I was just pointing out that someone made a similar comment to one that Ferraro made.

If you think that means I want the ticket to lose, then you are simply not paying attention.

You know nothing about me. Please don't attempt to read my mind or interpret my intentions. Your comment was immature and lacks understanding of what was said.

I don't think that pointing out the truth is trollish.

Or, are we now not allowed any critique or the ability to point out blatant injustice?


by cuppajoe on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cupajoe has no other purpose other (none / 0)

Ignore Chrisblask, it is one of those you-know-whats who hysterically run around HRing any comment not praising Obama's sexy nature.


by switching sides2 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cupajoe has no other purpose other (none / 0)

My point wasn't to agree or disagree with cuppajoe, or cuppajoe's mission in life, whatever it may be. My point is that in a rational debate, one should address the argument being made, and not "dissapear" it just because you think the person making it is a bad guy or stupid or whatever. If we are liberals, let us act like it.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 01:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I allow myself crankiness (none / 0)

from time to time, and when a commentor restrains themselves to commentary consiting of "I will try to defeat the Dem ticket this year" I permit myself to exercise it.

I would (and do) debate issues with Nazis, but there is a difference between any sort of debate and Trolling.  Cupajoe is a troll, there is no desire to debate anything, there, just to waste time and insert random attacks.

More power to you, but I'm not joining in this particular Intervention.


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 12:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 1)

But there is a difference. Obama actually has a resume. It may be thin, but first in your class at Harvard Law is nothing to shake a stick at. I truly believe that a white man with his rhetorical ability and resume would have been exactly where Obama was. Palin was a journalism major from the University of Iowa, and was mayor of Podunk, AK. I am absolutely positive that McCain could have found a socially conservative man without a record to attack to run with.

So yes, Ferraro made a similar comment. But she was wrong. We're right.


Yes. We. Did.
by pneuma on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:07:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Mojo (none / 0)

for addressing the substance of the argument. To the people who chose to HR cuppajoe's comment instead of rebutting it, don't you think pneuma's approach is more in keeping with liberal values, and in the long run, more effective?


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 01:55:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

Heard of Dan Quale?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 11:51:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 2)

If by "went after corruption," you mean, "created even more of it," then yes, I agree.


by ProgressiveDL on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:28:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

So many "reformers" are like that--I see it in Chicago all the time.

When voters are sick of corruption, politicians will run against "corruption" to win, whether or not they really are reformers.

They put a few people in jail--though I'm not even sure she did that--then it's business as usual.

Oldest political game in the book.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:16:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you know what ColeB is thinking? (none / 0)

Nope it is all about thinking women are stupid as far as you are concerned

Is it, perhaps, that all about thinking men are stupid as far as you are concerned?  Or are you just still bound and determined to destroy Sen. Obama by any means that you can?


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 1)

I read the conservative blogs periodically to see what the other side's talking about and while I don't think Palin's candidacy a sign that the GOP is anymore friendly to the feminist cause, I do note that a few conservative bloggers have already noted how Kos in particular has gone out of its way to attack her with whatever they have - be it relevant or not.

Sure, she should not be off limits to criticism, but  criticism can and should remain civil.  Don't like what she did as governor?  Fine, but the fact that she's a woman should not play a part in that.


by ejintx on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:44:03 PM EST

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

Except that the only reason she was chosen was because she was female.
That's sexist in itself, but it's easier to attack Democrats for pointing that out, I guess.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 07:04:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes and no. (2.00 / 1)

There is no doubt McCain picked Palin in part because she is female. Both McCain & Palin have made this clear and pointing this out is NOT sexist. However, if McCain's only intent in picking his VP candidate was his gender, he passed over much more qualified women in the GOP: KBH, Whitman, Snowe, Dole. The question is why and what does this tell us about his campaign?

I think he ultimately went with Palin because (1) she is a woman, (2) she has the conservative Christian wing of the party going batshit crazy about her -- this pick is also for them, (3) by picking a relatively unknown outside Washington he has driven the media narrative crazy, and (4) its not about actual qualifications but about story -- think GWB, the everyman Cowboy not matter how false it was -- Palin is a gun-toting, moose eating, hocky mom, everywoman.

On top of this they know HRC supporters went nuts over real and/or perceived sexism against Hillary and believe they can use this to their advantage. Interestingly enough, Palin basically accused Hillary of misusing the sexism charge, a strategy that the GOP is now happy to embrace.

Unfortunately, some of the attacks against Palin come off as quite sexist and this really doesn't help. At the same time I agree with those that argue that McCain's pick of Palin is a display of sexism in of itself and his choice does insult me as a woman.

The best way to attack this is to attack McCain and his judgment and decision making processes. Do we really want this man leading this country? What does this first major decision tell us about that choice? Forget she is a woman -- do think Dan Quayle -- he picked an unqualified person for political gain not because it was the best choice for this country.


by batgirl71 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes and no. (none / 0)

excellent comment, this is the most reasoned read on the situation, explaining the nuances of attacking a candidate with and without the use of sexism.  


by KLRinLA on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 02:22:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 4)

She is a piece of laughable crappiness completely independent and without any reliance on or connection with her gender. Mojo and rec'd for defending women in general while remqaining able to understand that Palin is not VP material.


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:47:59 PM EST

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 3)

I mean, come on, even calling her "a piece of laughable crappiness" is going way too far.  I disagree with her on a number of issues, but still acknowledge her to be a smart, decent woman with a meteoric rise in Alaskan and, now national, politics.

It hardly makes sense, either, to denigrate her as non-VP material on the basis of experience, while refusing to deny the lack of experience of our own candidate.  We ought to at least be consistent--and attacking the Republicans' #2 on the basis of who she is does us little overall good.  Do you want to keep the opening for Republican attacks on who our#1 is?  I would hope not.

My vote for Obama has nothing to do with how many years he has spent in Washington.  And my vote against McCain has nothing to do with how little experience his #2 has.  


by MMR2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 3)

Nonononononoononono......

Experience is not just something that happens to you, it is what you DO. Obama chose to learn as much as he could as fast as he could, and as a result, he has the knowledge of a man twice his age.

She doesn't have that in her. It's nowhere near sexist. She doesn't know about almost anything else outside Alaskan politics. Some governors are local dogs. They get in office and people love them because they know and love their state. Now sometimes those governors burnish their credentials to shore up a run. That comes over time towards the end of their term. Sebelius did just that. But Palin has NOT gotten there yet. It is toooooo early.

There's nothing sexist about this, it's like bringing someone up to the major leagues when they've been doing well in AA ball. It's just not a good idea, and it actually diminishes their own abilities.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 2)

it was the complete denigration of a person mmr2 seemed to object to. it's that that type of attack opens the door for similar attacks on Obama. you cannot honestly claim any moral superiority if you are using the same tactics as the repukes.


by zerosumgame on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:00:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 1)

No, I get it. I keep saying fight on experience, but my argument leans towards fighting on knowledge. If she were governor of Alaska but her policies were solely Alaska-based, she'd be more qualified. But she just hasn't been running for office, and her statements only lead one to conclude that she hasn't been paying enough attention to start.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:06:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, it's not. (2.00 / 3)

I mean, come on, even calling her "a piece of laughable crappiness" is going way too far.

That might be too extreme for a debate, but let's not go so far as to call that sexist, but it's not.

Look.  McCain made a pledge that he wasn't going to choose a Dan Quayle type running mate, as George H. W. Bush did back in 1988.  If you want to see how a male pretty-boy running-mate would be attacked, you need go back no further than that.  The Republicans still complain, to this day, about the awful denigrating treatment that he received.  And when I say, to this day, I mean, like today, on CNN.

We can't go after her the way we did Dan Quayle because the Republicans WILL claim that it is sexist.  In fact, we should assume they will characterize any attacks on her as sexist, whether they are or aren't.

The best strategy is just to ignore her.  


by Dumbo on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:39:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, it's not. (none / 0)

There are lots of sound ways to turn her into a big negative, but your instincts are in the right place.  Even if we manage to correct our unconsciously misogynist fellow-democrats, the biggest danger here is overreaching.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:52:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, it's not. (2.00 / 1)

mmr2 did NOT call it sexist. he/she did point out it was a meaningless unsupportable personal attack, just like a McCainiac would use agaist BHO


by zerosumgame on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:08:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, it's not. (none / 0)

Ha!

I never actually understood the attacks on Quayle.

I mean, I know he was a dim bulb, but his resume looked solid to me.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:20:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 1)

Barack Obama sponsered 820 bills in the Illinois State legislature.  Since being a US Senator, he's authored 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.

He's been in national office more the double the amount of time Sarah Palin is, and serves a constituency roughly 25 times the size of Governor Palin's.

And, most importantly, roughly 18 million Americans voted for him to be Commander-in-Chief.  Population of Alaska?  600,000.

On his own he's no slouch.  Compared to Sarah Palin he's John Quincy Adams.

This isn't meant as an insult, but the sooner you drop the Democratic primary talking points, the better.  They weren't true in the first place, and now they serve no purpose at all.





Great diary, CG.  Democrats should be treading carefully here, and they're not.  For moral and tactical reasons, we need to lock it up fast.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

Surely there is some kind of numbers game being played with the claim that Obama has authored 890 bills in the Senate.  That can't possibly be an accurate claim.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

You're probably right.  I'm thinking amendments count, so that increases the number, but bills are bills, so this isn't a like counting "motion on the motion to suspend the rules for cloture" type stuff.  Parliamentary procedures don't count.  It has to be either a law or an allocation of the budget, or a line in the tax code.

The thing is, and I'm treading lightly here, I'm pulling that from the left side of an old list where Hillary Clinton was on the right side, and the bills she authored and cosponsored were numbered there.  He compared favorably with her.  And I really don't want to get into it further than that.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:11:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

According to David Frum - yes, David Frum!

Ms. Palin's experience in government makes Barack Obama look like George C. Marshall.

Frum also makes it clear that, in his view, Palin was strategic targeting at Clinton women:

Most significantly of all, Ms. Palin reaches out to those working-class women who supported Hillary Clinton's candidacy - and who may not be reconciled to Barack Obama. In her statement on Friday in Ohio, she thanked Hillary Clinton for putting 18 million cracks in the hardest of all glass ceilings - and then pointedly argued that a vote for Mr. McCain was the surest way to smash that ceiling once and for all.

Sure he's an obnoxious self-righteous, right-wing prick who most likely has a terrible record of sexism.  I'm pointing to his take to say that it's evident within the GOP that Palin was tapped, at least in part, because of her gender.


A drink whenever Palin makes a Well-argued, Semantically Intact, Logical and Lucid Argument -- or WASILLA for short.
by January 20 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:32:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

Plus he went to two of the finest schools in the country and excelled in probably the best law school in the country.

While Sarah....didn't.

BTW:

I read on one of the blogs that Obama's old state senate district has the population size of alaska, but I'm having trouble confirming that.

Let me know if you have it.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:23:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

No, it's about 1/3rd the size of Alaska. Alaska's around 660,000, Obama's district at 220,000, roughly.


by SuGeAtARC on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:35:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 4)

Are you saying that the suggestion that McCain picked Palin over other Republican women because she's prettier is sexist?  Because if you are, then I respectfully disagree.  It's a criticism that Palin is comparatively inexperienced and also sort of a backhanded compliment, but it's more of a critcism that McCain is a shallow, old man more out for looks than anything.

And are you saying that the the suggestion that McCain picked Palin because she's a woman is sexist?  Again, I would have to disagree.  That would be like suggestion Kerry's pick of Edwards wasn't obviously an attempt to win the South.  While both nominees had other factors going in their favor, I would imagine, you would have to be in denial not to see the obvious reasoning.


by TheUnknown285 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:48:05 PM EST

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 4)

I am very happy with McCain's pick. I couldn't be happier. I'm a little surprised that some of my fellow Democrats can't see the transparently obvious motivation for the choice.... or could it be that

they aren't Democrats? They aren't feminists?


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

As I said above, she was a beauty queen, so it's not like she hasn't exploited her looks herself.

But, beyond that, I remember very specifically reading that one of the reasons Quayle was picked by Bush was because he was judged to be a young, good looking guy who would add some pizazz to the ticket.

I don't see this as sexist.


by Bush Bites on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 09:27:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Being a young attractive male (2.00 / 1)

has not been a detriment to most men when it came to careers.  Nor has it been a detriment to be an old average male.
FACT: for women looks have been an issue. It was for Hillary, it is for Palin.  
For Hillary she was attacked for her ankles, her face, her post menopausal age.  Her supporters were often denigrated on so called liberal blogs for being post menopausal b*tches.  
Palin's youth and looks are now being used to denigrate her...she exploited them according to people on this blog.  
As well, she has been labeled a front for her husband (he's really running the show).  She's being trashed for her choice to be a working mom.

Reagan exploited being a movie star.
Kennedy exploited being better looking than Nixon, especially on television.
But no one talked about it.  
Yesterday I heard a young man on a talk show mention how FINALLY we WILL have two women, first lady and first vice lady, worth looking at because they are HOT.   And the audience clapped.

THIS is the world women live in.  When we are young and if fortunate to be "up to the male standard of "hot" we are not taken seriously, and if we do get ahead,  we exploited our looks.  If we are "post menopausal" we are looked at as non-persons, hardly worthy of doing anything but appeasing the children and grandchildren....and oh yea, we would never have achieved anything if we had not married so and so.

SOME democratic folks seem to be clueless.  Republicans are quite willing to exploit the clueless dems who still do not get it.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:25:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

AGREED!!! (none / 0)

This is exactly why the choice of Palin will bring over some women to McCain.  


by easyE on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:53:43 PM EST

Sure (2.00 / 3)

because lord knows McCain and the Republicans aren't sexist.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:03:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's what you are missing (none / 0)

Most democratic women, especially those of us who have been politically active for decades, KNOW rethugs are sexist and exploit sex and race.  It's a given.

But what we did not know, did not expect is that OUR party, the one we worked for all our lives, would used sexism against one of our own, allow sexism against one of our own.

But many of you on this blog refuse to acknowledge that then and refuse to acknowledge it now.

You think that it was OK that the democratic leadership remained silent while one of our was trashed publicly with sexism. Some will trash Palin for saying "Hillary/her supporters just whine too much." You want us to condemn her for that when it was said here and on many so called liberal/progressive blogs by more than a few.

Most of the same people here continue to trash those of us who were offended by how the DNC treated women, especially older women.  Sexism and ageism (used more against females than males) in our ranks stinks and hurts much worse than what comes from the republicans.  Many of us are dems because we could never be a party of a group who used sexism, racism as tools.  So when dem blogs use those things, the pain is much deeper.


by Jjc2008 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: AGREED!!! (2.00 / 3)

Until they realize that Sarah Palin and John McCain are anti-choice.  Until they remember that McCain divorced his first wife after she was in an auto accident and married a young, blonde beer heiress.  Until they remember that he offered his wife for some topless beauty pageant called Miss Buffalo Chip.  Oh, and a buffalo chip is literally a piece of shit you burn for heat.  The pageant could have been called "Miss Piece of Shit You Burn for Heat."

If they didn't know, let's enlighten them.  If they forgot, let's remind them.


by TheUnknown285 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:10:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: AGREED!!! (2.00 / 1)

But do you realize that women don't vote in lockstep?  Roughly half of women are pro-life.  55% of married women voted for Bush in 2004.  Knowing Bush's positions on women's right to choose, that last statistic should say something loud and clear.  "Enlightening" all women, as much as I would like to see it done, just won't happen.  

Some women are indeed attracted to the ticket simply because there is a woman on it.  Other women are attracted to the ticket because they agree with Republican ideology.  Should we work to persuade them otherwise?  Sure.  But we must understand that getting even a bare majority of the female vote in 2008 will be no cakewalk.


by MMR2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:20:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: AGREED!!! (2.00 / 1)

Yes, I do realize that.  I was referring to female Hillary supporters being drawn in by Palin.  And besides, an across the board ban on abortion, even for rape would be opposed by even many pro-life people.


by TheUnknown285 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:27:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 4)

Well, the Kos diary about the husband as the "shadow governor" was a link to another site that said that. I couldn't find the date on the article but assume it was before she was named McCain's running mate. So that's out there.


She really did enter beauty contests which most feminists frown on. I think pointing that sort of thing out is quite legitimate and I plan to do it myself whenever I get the opportunity because it's very relevant to someone who we are picking to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. If a nude photo of her (or McCain, too, I guess - yuuccchhh) is found it will also be very important to make sure everyone knows about it. I sure will do my part. That would pretty much finish McCain's bid for the presidency and it can't be too soon.

Other than those, though, you're right, there will be plenty of sexism directed at her. No question. That Nicole Smith photo is especially tasteless.

by Becky G on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:54:05 PM EST

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

Other than those, though, you're right, there will be plenty of sexism directed at her. No question. That Nicole Smith photo is especially tasteless

Agreed (not to mention just damn scary), but we can make too much of stuff like that in a heartbeat.  Political satire is brutal, and makes blogging-level commentary look like Queensbury Rules.  I shudder to think what the worst Obama/Larry Sinclair images out there look like, but I've seen a lot of anti-Obama images that would make Hitler blush.

We're not children, this isn't Dorset Town Council.  She's going to get creamed like anyone and while I don't commend any unwarranted or tasteless attacks, we shouldn't lose our minds when they happen.  Because they will.

Just like they happen to every other person running for any offices like these...


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:03:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I'm Not Mistaken (none / 0)

the Anna Nicole picture comes from a blog run by a woman, no?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:05:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I dunno (2.00 / 1)

but it would not be a stretch to expect that women will be at least as harsh as men towards her.

And that, too, will be overlooked by the GOP and used to feed the "Look!  The Democrats are sexist hypocrites!!" meme.


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Btw (2.00 / 1)

Dorset Town council is a well known hotbed of Russian mafiosi posing as septuagenarians. You have been warned.


by duende on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 02:47:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (2.00 / 2)

I saw a diary on Kos where someone said he couldn't vote for Obama because of his deep connections with Bilderburg and Bohemian Grove. There are LOTS of profoundly stupid diaries on Kos. Not representative of most progressives, but it's why I come here and not there.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (none / 0)

Where there is a smaller percentage of idiotic diaries?  LOL!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Shame. (